I have a malphigia growing over a piece of driftwood. The wood seems to be
softening somewhat. I had treated it with wood hardener before using it.
Can I apply lime sulfur without harming the malphigia?
Carol in S. Florida - Zone 10

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In a message dated 9/1/2005 9:15:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
OneBonsaiBabe [at] AOL.COM writes:

I have a malphigia growing over a piece of driftwood. The wood seems to be

softening somewhat. I had treated it with wood hardener before using it.
Can I apply lime sulfur without harming the malphigia?
Carol in S. Florida - Zone 10


I am not sure I understand. Your plant has dead wood that you painted with
wood hardener? Now it is getting soft? The lime sulfur will not help, but
more wood hardener might. Or is it the driftwood that is getting soft. Then
more wood hardener s what you want. I put some Min Wax Wood Hardener on a
Bougainvillea it must have adsorbed six coats. Wood hardener will not repair
really rotten wood, you must remove the rotted wood and apply the product to good
wood to prevent further rot.

Billy

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Penetrating epoxy will repair really rotted wood.

I have used one that is very watery and has a cure time of several
hours. The procedure is to brush it on, wait for it to soak in, then
repeat endlessly, until it stops soaking in. The epoxy penetrates more
on really rotted wood, less on solid wood. The treated wood will be
darker & have a sheen, but after a bit of time & one or more treatments
with lime sulphur, it will be very difficult if not impossible to
detect. It may need more epoxy in a few years.

I have treated the interior of an apple that was so rotted you could
carve it with your fingernails (it needed more epoxy in a few years)
and a priceless collected juniper that had crumbling shari. Both are
doing fine.

For me, the question that remains is, what will these trees be like in
10 - 20 - 50 years? Will they rot out under all the epoxy (or wood
hardener) & shed the plasticized wood?

I bought mine from a Richmond, CA manufacturer, but I think penetrating
epoxy is available at Home Depot & at boat shops for repairing rotted
wood.

Jim Gremel

On Sep 1, 2005, at 6:22 PM, Billy M. Rhodes wrote:

>
> In a message dated 9/1/2005 9:15:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> OneBonsaiBabe [at] AOL.COM writes:
>
> I have a malphigia growing over a piece of driftwood. The wood seems
> to be
>
> softening somewhat. I had treated it with wood hardener before using
> it.
> Can I apply lime sulfur without harming the malphigia?
> Carol in S. Florida - Zone 10
>
>
> I am not sure I understand. Your plant has dead wood that you painted
> with
> wood hardener? Now it is getting soft? The lime sulfur will not
> help, but
> more wood hardener might. Or is it the driftwood that is getting soft.
> Then
> more wood hardener s what you want. I put some Min Wax Wood Hardener
> on a
> Bougainvillea it must have adsorbed six coats. Wood hardener will not
> repair
> really rotten wood, you must remove the rotted wood and apply the
> product to good
> wood to prevent further rot.
>
> Billy
>
> ************************************************************ ***********
> *********
> ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++
> ************************************************************ ***********
> *********
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>>> <<--<<
> +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST [at] HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
> +++++
>

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> Penetrating epoxy will repair really rotted wood.
>

When you epoxy (or harden) already rotted wood, without
removing all of the rot, you are asking for more rot. None
of these -- epoxy or wood hardener -- soaks into _all_ of
the rotted area. Any rot left behind deep in the tree will
grow. It's also somewhat questionable whether these things
actually kill the rot fungi.

Treatment by either of these should be attempted only after
you have scraped and cut away to bare, hard wood and then a
little more, if possible. Even then, since the fungal
spores that cause the rot are _so_ small, you likely will
leave some behind. (Perhaps a bath in some kind of fungicide
before the hardening treatment would help, but . . .)

Of course, the rot itself won't kill a tree. The decay
fungi and bacteria don't attack living wood, just the
interior deadwood -- which the tree is always making, so
there's an endless and growing supply. In nature, death
comes because the rot has taken away so much of the hard
tissue that holds a tree upright that it becomes top heavy
and snaps off (usually onto someone's roof, it seems).

In bonsai, a bad case of rot simply has to be designed into
the tree. Fillers and other things used to restore the
original outline again adhere to the wood uncertainly, and
the inevitable spaces become the sites of future, eventual
rotting. It's usually better to cut it all away and then
see what you can make of what you have left.

Jim Lewis - jklewis [at] nettally.com - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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----- Original Message -----
From: <OneBonsaiBabe [at] AOL.COM>
Subject: [IBC] Lime Sulfur


> I have a malphigia growing over a piece of driftwood. The wood seems to
be
> softening somewhat. I had treated it with wood hardener before using it.
> Can I apply lime sulfur without harming the malphigia?
> Carol in S. Florida - Zone 10

A helpful hint,
once you get rid of most of the "pulpy" rot and then treat the rest with
MinWax woodhardener , you'l find that Lime Sulfur easily and quickly washes
off that slippery finish. If you treat the wood BEFORE applying MWH , and
adjust it to coloration you want, THEN apply MWH it will "Lock In" the
color and won't wash off. Note, the Lime Sulfur will ONLY be for
contrast/effect on this wood. It won't stop rot or bugs.
Regards,
Dale

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A big thank you for all of you who gave me great information regarding the
use of lime sulfur. I learned lots and am busy putting all the info into
practice.
Carol in S. Florida - Zone 10

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Carol, I'm also in Forida.
What you have done is known as a Phoenix graft, attaching a small
slender tree to an interesting piece of driftwood.
The main reason for rot on the driftwood is fungi because of the
constant humidity from watering your tree daily. Then after fungi sets
bacteria may also start working.
Lime sulfur actually play a key role in your case.
Lime sulfur is one of the least toxic, most effective controls for
peach leaf curl, brown rot, and other fungus problems. Also used for
control of pear blister mite, caneblight and scab. For this it should
be diluted at 4 Tbs-1 cup/gal of water.
Lime sulfur was first used on bonsai for that purpose, but then someone
realized that applying directly the concentrate on the deadwood not only
prevented fungus problems for up to 6 months, but have a desiderable
unexpected side effect: it bleached the wood as it has been exposed to
the elements (weathered) in nature for years.
Using the lime sulfur concentrate (non diluted) will certainly get rid
of all fungus/rot problems and keep the driftwood bleached. In my
humble opinion thats all you need. I dont think wood hardener will be
neccesary in the future if you apply lime sulfur regularly, say
quarterly.
When you do use a small brush or artist brush if neccesary to avoid
excessive lime sulfur on the live tree bark and foliage. Cover also
the surface of the soil with some plastic (groceries plastic bags from
your local supermarket) to avoid excessive dripping of the lime sulfur
concentrate to the roots of your tree.
Hope this help you answer the question.
Gene

OneBonsaiBabe [at] AOL.COM Wrote:
> A big thank you for all of you who gave me great information regarding
> the
> use of lime sulfur. I learned lots and am busy putting all the info
> into
> practice.
> Carol in S. Florida - Zone 10
>
>


--
Gene DC

On Sep 13, 2005, at 5:38 AM, Isom, Jeff ((EM, PTL)) wrote:

> Do you happen to have a brand (or product) name for this? I have a
> collected Arborvitae that needs it!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff Isom

I bought my epoxy from the manufacturer: Smith & Co. in Richmond, CA,
(510) 237-6842.

Their product is called Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer. The label
states:

“This extremely effective sealer is used in the treatment of dry rot in
wood, the sealing of concrete, and as a consolidant for porous
materials.

It can ensure adhesion of a wide variety of varnishes, paints,
adhesives and caulkings.

It consists of a tough, flexible epoxy resin system in a solvent blend
which dissolves the natural saps, oils and moisture of wood and
develops a chemical bond with the wood fibers themselves...

.... Pot life of the regular formula is 8 hours at 72 deg. F, with full
chemical cure in 7 days at 72 deg. F.

Pot life of the fast formula is 2 hours at 72 deg. F, with full
chemical cure in 2 days at 72 deg. F.”


As of 9/13/05, their price for a 2 quart kit is about $39. + tax. The
have 2 pint kits & 2 gallon kits as well. It is made in a 2 hour cure
version & an 8 hour cure version. Either would be fine for bonsai.

Smith & Co. will ship, but they recommend checking with their
distributor at www.star-distributing.com - Star takes credit cards, has
an online store and also has retail outlets in some East Coast cities.

I have seen penetrating epoxy is at Home Depot & I am expect that it is
available at boat shops everywhere at boat shops - a Google search for
“penetrating epoxy” gave 860 references.

Jim
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST [at] HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

Jim: Have you already used it? (I did not see the earlier part of this thread?) If not, I would be certain that this does not seep through wood into live tissue. Experimentation might be the way to go . . . with less than precious material.

The word "penetrating" concerns me.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Gremel <jim [at] JIMGREMEL.COM>
To: BONSAI [at] HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
Sent: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:01:26 -0700
Subject: Re: [IBC] Lime Sulfur


On Sep 13, 2005, at 5:38 AM, Isom, Jeff ((EM, PTL)) wrote:

> Do you happen to have a brand (or product) name for this? I have a
> collected Arborvitae that needs it!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff Isom

I bought my epoxy from the manufacturer: Smith & Co. in Richmond, CA, (510) 237-6842.

Their product is called Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer. The label states:

"This extremely effective sealer is used in the treatment of dry rot in wood, the sealing of concrete, and as a consolidant for porous materials.

It can ensure adhesion of a wide variety of varnishes, paints, adhesives and caulkings.

It consists of a tough, flexible epoxy resin system in a solvent blend which dissolves the natural saps, oils and moisture of wood and develops a chemical bond with the wood fibers themselves...

.... Pot life of the regular formula is 8 hours at 72 deg. F, with full chemical cure in 7 days at 72 deg. F.

Pot life of the fast formula is 2 hours at 72 deg. F, with full chemical cure in 2 days at 72 deg. F."

As of 9/13/05, their price for a 2 quart kit is about $39. + tax. The have 2 pint kits & 2 gallon kits as well. It is made in a 2 hour cure version & an 8 hour cure version. Either would be fine for bonsai.

Smith & Co. will ship, but they recommend checking with their distributor at www.star-distributing.com - Star takes credit cards, has an online store and also has retail outlets in some East Coast cities.

I have seen penetrating epoxy is at Home Depot & I am expect that it is available at boat shops everywhere at boat shops - a Google search for "penetrating epoxy" gave 860 references.

Jim
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************************************************************ ********************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST [at] HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++

************************************************************ ********************
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Well, yes, "penetrating" can be a provocative word...

I have used it, with great concern about what it would do to the live
tissue. The first tree was an apple that had a naturally rotted &
hollowed trunk. Gorgeous base, but the wood was rotted enough that I
could carve it with my fingers. The tree is doing fine, but I gave it
more epoxy a few years later, when it seemed that the rotted wood was
again, or still, porous.

I have also used it on two very precious collected junipers with
excellent results (earlier I said one juniper, but I now remember a
second one).

Perhaps the epoxy would damage live tissue, but just didn't get that
far.

I have soaked dry but unrotted juniper sticks in the epoxy. After
curing, I cut them to find the penetration was minimal. On my junipers,
the epoxy firmed up weak & porous wood that wouldn't have lasted much
longer without it.

As I said earlier in this thread: For me, the question that remains is,
what will these trees be like in 10 - 20 - 50 years? Will they rot out
under all the epoxy (or other wood hardener) & shed the plasticized
wood?

There are uncertainties, but it seems to be my best option for some
trees.
jim
On Sep 13, 2005, at 1:28 PM, iasnob [at] aol.com wrote:

>  
>  
> Jim:  Have you already used it?  (I did not see the earlier part of
> this thread?)  If not, I would be certain that this does not seep
> through wood into live tissue.  Experimentation might be the way to go
> . . . with less than precious material.
>  
> The word "penetrating" concerns me.
>  
> Cordially,
>  
> Michael Persiano
> members.aol.com/iasnob 
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Gremel <jim [at] JIMGREMEL.COM>
> To: BONSAI [at] HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
> Sent: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:01:26 -0700
> Subject: Re: [IBC] Lime Sulfur
>
>
> On Sep 13, 2005, at 5:38 AM, Isom, Jeff ((EM, PTL)) wrote: 
>  
> > Do you happen to have a brand (or product) name for this? I have a 
> > collected Arborvitae that needs it! 
> > 
> > Thanks, 
> > 
> > Jeff Isom 
>  
> I bought my epoxy from the manufacturer: Smith & Co. in Richmond, CA,
> (510) 237-6842. 
>  
> Their product is called Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer. The label
> states: 
>  
> "This extremely effective sealer is used in the treatment of dry rot
> in wood, the sealing of concrete, and as a consolidant for porous
> materials. 
>  
> It can ensure adhesion of a wide variety of varnishes, paints,
> adhesives and caulkings. 
>  
> It consists of a tough, flexible epoxy resin system in a solvent blend
> which dissolves the natural saps, oils and moisture of wood and
> develops a chemical bond with the wood fibers themselves... 
>  
> ... Pot life of the regular formula is 8 hours at 72 deg. F, with full
> chemical cure in 7 days at 72 deg. F. 
>  
> Pot life of the fast formula is 2 hours at 72 deg. F, with full
> chemical cure in 2 days at 72 deg. F." 
>  
> As of 9/13/05, their price for a 2 quart kit is about $39. + tax. The
> have 2 pint kits & 2 gallon kits as well. It is made in a 2 hour cure
> version & an 8 hour cure version. Either would be fine for bonsai. 
>  
> Smith & Co. will ship, but they recommend checking with their
> distributor at www.star-distributing.com - Star takes credit cards,
> has an online store and also has retail outlets in some East Coast
> cities. 
>  
> I have seen penetrating epoxy is at Home Depot & I am expect that it
> is available at boat shops everywhere at boat shops - a Google search
> for "penetrating epoxy" gave 860 references. 
>  
> Jim 
> ************************************************************ ***********
> ********* 
>   ++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++ 
> ************************************************************ ***********
> ********* 
> >>-->> The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/
> <<--<< 
>   +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST [at] HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
> +++++ 

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++++Sponsored, in part, by Bob Pastorio++++
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail BONSAI-REQUEST [at] HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM +++++